Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

"That's badass !! fucking epiiiiiiiic !!"
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DarkestShadow
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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by DarkestShadow » Thu 6 Dec 2018 15:54

Suck My BRAAAM wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 12:10
Blakus can burn in Hell for all I care! respectfully
If there's even a tiny bit of seriousness to that you need therapy dude...
Headshot wrote:
Wed 5 Dec 2018 22:54

What's the point ? Aren't Williams' masterpieces beautiful/epic enough in their original state ?

I know that Blake is only doing the job, but what he did remains to me an ugly denaturation.
Of course - but they work in the films and not really the trailers. Maybe the most intense parts... the thing is - if you watch a movie you are willing and ready to immerse yourself in it. Being more subtle is fine - you pay attention. But a trailer often just comes at people randomly when they want to watch something else on YouTube or on TV or another movie in the cinema. So you're not necessarily willing and ready to immerse yourself. Thus the trailer needs to be simple, quick and scream at you and claim attention... maybe not you, but for most people that's what it is obviously. So, of course the music needs to be like that too. Sublimity would get lost in the noise of the trailer and the music must support the sledgehammer intensity of the trailer.
So, you take the original pieces and blow them up heavily...

In the end it's just a short ad. Not the movie. I don't see most movie scores ever becoming akin to trailer music (at least not primarily), especially not Star Wars. So, 1 - 2 minute ads with sledgehammer music (as demanded by the format) strikes me as rather irrelevant.

I also don't find it to be poorly executed - unlike many other trailer scores, including those presented here before. A joke, some of them.
So, here we're talking about taaaaaste. :D Simple but well written and produced for what it is.
As long as the great classical orchestral isn't being wiped out (still the most common scoring approach for fantasy-style movies) I think the "hyped epic" versions of classics and such original music can peacefully coexist with the originals and other classical scores. Different approaches...

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by raphael.badawi » Thu 6 Dec 2018 16:08

I dreamed about a Smurfs trailer with something really new in the music: vibraslaps, toypiano, moisturized glasses, and bombards, the result was perfectly adequate to the pictures. And then, another exciting trailer, for a documentary about butterflys, sounding like Luc Ferrari's soundscapes with a tonal quality, something risky, something perfectly adequate. And then, another trailer, a subtle story about civil rights, with BRAAAMS and twisted sounds and FX everywhere, and I was like: "dude -_-"".

EDIT: My point being: it's not the end of the world if you do something different. It's great if it's appropriate, it's even better than doing something that has already been done in a better way. But making endlessly the same thing even if it's outrageously unappropriate: nope. Can't.

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Arko
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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by Arko » Thu 6 Dec 2018 16:23

DarkestShadow wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 15:54
Of course - but they work in the films and not really the trailers. Maybe the most intense parts... the thing is - if you watch a movie you are willing and ready to immerse yourself in it. Being more subtle is fine - you pay attention. But a trailer often just comes at people randomly when they want to watch something else on YouTube or on TV or another movie in the cinema. So you're not necessarily willing and ready to immerse yourself. Thus the trailer needs to be simple, quick and scream at you and claim attention... maybe not you, but for most people that's what it is obviously. So, of course the music needs to be like that too. Sublimity would get lost in the noise of the trailer and the music must support the sledgehammer intensity of the trailer.
So, you take the original pieces and blow them up heavily...

In the end it's just a short ad. Not the movie. I don't see most movie scores ever becoming akin to trailer music (at least not primarily), especially not Star Wars. So, 1 - 2 minute ads with sledgehammer music (as demanded by the format) strikes me as rather irrelevant.

I also don't find it to be poorly executed - unlike many other trailer scores, including those presented here before. A joke, some of them.
So, here we're talking about taaaaaste. :D Simple but well written and produced for what it is.
As long as the great classical orchestral isn't being wiped out (still the most common scoring approach for fantasy-style movies) I think the "hyped epic" versions of classics and such original music can peacefully coexist with the originals and other classical scores. Different approaches...
I guess you're right. Still, I'm really tired of those ostinatos, epic choirs, drops... There's nothing genuine about it.
I actually don't really care about sophisticated orchestration, it still can be completely hollow ("The Race" by Mike Verta).
I like it when the music guy/gal had a blast. And most of the time, people who manage to have fun, are good at what they do because they do it all the time.
And when music is driven by fame, opportunity or money (even for paying the bills), it shows, even not in the foreground. And there is no fun anymore, and it sounds loud, fat, swag or whatever but genuine.

+1 raphael
French indie game developer

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DarkestShadow
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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by DarkestShadow » Thu 6 Dec 2018 16:31

Arko wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 16:23

I guess you're right. Still, I'm really tired of those ostinatos, epic choirs, drops... There's nothing genuine about it.
I actually don't really care about sophisticated orchestration, it still can be completely hollow ("The Race" by Mike Verta).
I like it when the music guy/gal had a blast. And most of the time, people who manage to have fun, are good at what they do because they do it all the time.
And when music is driven by fame, opportunity or money (even for paying the bills), it shows, even not in the foreground. And there is no fun anymore, and it sounds loud, fat, swag or whatever but genuine.

+1 raphael
I'm not tired of any musical device, as long as I find the track interesting. While there is a lot of boring stuff there are also many tracks in the "epic style" that almost literally ignite me inside. Whether it is "genuine" or not depends on the perspective and taste of the person listening to it. There are many people who are passionate about this stuff and very genuine. Including me.

And I have no idea how The Race is hollow and not sophistically orchestrated. Most others here also found it to be technically brilliant.

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by Arko » Thu 6 Dec 2018 16:43

DarkestShadow wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 16:31
I'm not tired of any musical device, as long as I find the track interesting. While there is a lot of boring stuff there are also many tracks in the "epic style" that almost literally ignite me inside. Whether it is "genuine" or not depends on the perspective and taste of the person listening to it. There are many people who are passionate about this stuff and very genuine. Including me.
I think I see what you mean, and I agree. It is a matter of personal sensitivity I guess.
And what I meant was that those devices were exclusively used in a none genuine way nowadays.
But you're right it has nothing to do with the devices, it's the way they're used.
DarkestShadow wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 16:31
And I have no idea how The Race is hollow and not sophistically orchestrated. Most others here also found it to be technically brilliant.
I feel that it IS sophisticated, hollow and generic.
French indie game developer

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DarkestShadow
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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by DarkestShadow » Thu 6 Dec 2018 16:47

Arko wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 16:43

I feel that it IS sophisticated, hollow and generic.
Ah, sorry looks like I read you wrong. I see what you mean then...

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Suck My BRAAAM
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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by Suck My BRAAAM » Thu 6 Dec 2018 21:36

DarkestShadow wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 15:54
Suck My BRAAAM wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 12:10
Blakus can burn in Hell for all I care! respectfully
If there's even a tiny bit of seriousness to that you need therapy dude...
Don't misquote my words to create drama where there isn't, this is not VI-Control. If you had any decency left in you, you'd clearly read the sarcasm in my words and also quote the part that says I have nothing against Blake.

That's exactly what you did with that inflammatory thread about Headshot, trying to stir shit up, that led into a lot of people getting banned. So fuck off, don't try to pull that shit here.

Funny that after your 3-month hiatus from posting at MS and sucking M Greene, not even the vi_noobs could stand your bs and gave you some serious ass whooping... I particularly liked the one calling you a pretentious 20-year-old or the one calling you out for misquoting posts in your own thread. And now you came back crawling to MS, just like I predicted. You are more than welcome here (like any vi_noob) just don't be a smartass about it.

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by Headshot » Thu 6 Dec 2018 22:40

DarkestShadow wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 15:54
Of course - but they work in the films and not really the trailers. Maybe the most intense parts... the thing is - if you watch a movie you are willing and ready to immerse yourself in it. Being more subtle is fine - you pay attention. But a trailer often just comes at people randomly when they want to watch something else on YouTube or on TV or another movie in the cinema. So you're not necessarily willing and ready to immerse yourself. Thus the trailer needs to be simple, quick and scream at you and claim attention... maybe not you, but for most people that's what it is obviously. So, of course the music needs to be like that too. Sublimity would get lost in the noise of the trailer and the music must support the sledgehammer intensity of the trailer.
I understand your point and it could be considered a logical reasoning.
But I precisely know nothing more exciting and captivating than Star Wars music in its ORIGINAL FORM (not to mention the power of a real fanfare...).

There are plenty of examples proving that Williams' musical language is also perfectly adapted to the needs of a trailer (no matter its length).
Compared to these beautiful and powerful performances (not to mention the writing level → lol), the dumbed down versions sound WEAK despite the overuse of retarded drums (which aim to hide their weakness) giving only an illusion of power.

Johnny knows what EPICNESS means :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwWLns7-xN8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2xp-qtUlsQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erLk59H86ww&t


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMDgTt4kLdo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6HN9soeGa8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-mewHsIhAU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdgmH9Vv2-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm4JEZudf0c&t

So as I said, the dumbed versions are wrong, not only because of the denaturation, but also because John Williams' score is far more exciting and efficient.
What an amazing coincidence : he created this music specially for this universe !

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by DarkestShadow » Fri 7 Dec 2018 16:05

Headshot wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 22:40

I understand your point and it could be considered a logical reasoning.
But I precisely know nothing more exciting and captivating than Star Wars music in its ORIGINAL FORM (not to mention the power of a real fanfare...).
The problem here is that this is certainly not the perspective of the majority... the power here has a lot to do with orchestration, not huge sound and constant FFF dynamic layers. I think the average person has a far harder time appreciating power when it heavily relies on orchestration than when it's huge sound and loudness.
Just like the average person will be more likely to pay attention to me when I yell at them "HEY!!! HEEEEYYY!!!!!!!" rather than saying something intellectual and powerful. There will be people who can appreciate the latter, but you're just more likely to reach even the last idiot of you just yell and claim attention like that. That could be an analogy to the way trailer music wants to claim attention and the way the original JW pieces work...
It's probably less certain to grab the average persons attention out of the blue... at least that's what studios seem to think. But not all as it seems based on the many videos you linked. So, it's an even smaller issue then if even in many trailers the original music is still used... Thus the hyped and simplified versions can both sit on a green meadow and enjoy their very different existances and purposes. :D :D - to get cheesy for a moment...

By the way - do you know which exact piece that is here...? Great - and definitely epic enough for me. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs
Suck My BRAAAM wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 21:36

Don't misquote my words to create drama where there isn't, this is not VI-Control. If you had any decency left in you, you'd clearly read the sarcasm in my words and also quote the part that says I have nothing against Blake.

That's exactly what you did with that inflammatory thread about Headshot, trying to stir shit up, that led into a lot of people getting banned. So fuck off, don't try to pull that shit here.
Which inflammatory thread about Headshot? The only thread about him I remember was the one where I shared his Composers Evolution video because I thought it was witty - good degree of truth and fun. :P Very inflammatory! And then I (and others) went on to defend him from venom and banishment - THAT lead to people being banned. But well - I guess that was shit and I can fuck off...

And I did not not misquote you. That you might want someones musical presence/brand to burn in hell (metaphorically of course LOL) because you don't like their stuff is already twisted enough. And I was assuming sarcasm, that's why I said "IF" there is seriousness to it... "in case" there is - even though I'm assuming there is not. But based on your attitude (random attacks and verbal diarrhea) I wasn't 100% convinced it was just sarcasm.
The rest ain't making sense to me. You're observing me of Vi-C, enjoy Ad Hominem and I apparently got ass-whooping. And sucked M Greene, even though he opened my account without me ever contacting him or changing my opinions after the last conflict.

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by Headshot » Fri 7 Dec 2018 20:17

DarkestShadow wrote:
Fri 7 Dec 2018 16:05
Headshot wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 22:40

I understand your point and it could be considered a logical reasoning.
But I precisely know nothing more exciting and captivating than Star Wars music in its ORIGINAL FORM (not to mention the power of a real fanfare...).
The problem here is that this is certainly not the perspective of the majority...
The trailers I posted above were all very well received. Therefore they constitute the proof that there is no need to dumb Williams' masterpieces down to get people hyped up.

The majority follows what is the most widespread and therefore is also able to connect with higher standards.

People become retarded and develop a taste for stupid things only because big companies give them stupid things to "eat". Put the same people on a island with only great music to listen and you will see their taste and sensitivity develop.

Man is What He Eats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

Image

Does the majority prefer Zimmer (or trailer music) over Williams ? Certainly (because Zimmer is far more widespread)...but that's not the question here.
Here is the point : denaturing Williams' masterpieces that way is not only useless (as evidenced by the success of the trailers I posted above) but also disrespectful if not unethical artistically speaking.
DarkestShadow wrote:
Fri 7 Dec 2018 16:05
at least that's what studios seem to think. But not all as it seems based on the many videos you linked. So, it's an even smaller issue then if even in many trailers the original music is still used...
They started to use dumbed down variations on the Force Awakens (I knew it was only the beginning, that's why I reacted, in vain).
Williams' score is now hardly used on the trailers (just once on The Last Jedi, nothing on Solo and Battlefront 2, as far as I remember)

DarkestShadow wrote:
Fri 7 Dec 2018 16:05
By the way - do you know which exact piece that is here...? Great - and definitely epic enough for me. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs
it's made out of at least two tracks from the original trilogy and another created by Williams for the trailer (he also recorded the music for the teaser) + some additional retarded layers : piano, drums...

The tracks from the original trilogy have been pitched and streched.

at 2.10 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqUi2L7641I

at 2.59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kheDYt93zvw

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by DarkestShadow » Fri 7 Dec 2018 20:39

Thanks for the info on the music!

I'd be very dubious about the exposure = appreciation idea. Maybe other people are so easily affected... But I always knew what other people like and heard pop music on the radio but still didn't like most of it. I very often like super unknown tracks that hardly anyone knows and likes and often don't understand the hype around others...

Noone can be popular out of nowhere. Companies cannot give people things if they don't already appreciate it. No way the music popular ATM would have come popular without people embracing it. And if there is any way of making most people appreciate "actual great music" perhaps even more than the music popular ATM there would be companies doing that right now.

But instead - Gangnam style, 1000 songs with "baby" in them 1000 times... it's easy listening mostly - that's I think why it's popular. The kind of music that creates a nice uplifting vibe and a bit of harmonic texture in the background. A lot of people aren't willing to really "listen" and maybe even "feel"...

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by Headshot » Fri 7 Dec 2018 21:03

DarkestShadow wrote:
Fri 7 Dec 2018 20:39
Companies cannot give people things if they don't already appreciate it. No way the music popular ATM would have come popular without people embracing it.
True,

but that's because most people have not had the opportunity to develop their taste : they will listen to what gives a quick and easy satisfaction to their ears : heavy drums/bass, cheesy songs etc.
And big companies exploit that.

A child will always be attracted to sugar.

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by DarkestShadow » Sat 8 Dec 2018 10:37

Yea, makes sense...

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by FriFlo » Sat 8 Dec 2018 16:56

Suck My BRAAAM wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 21:36
Funny that after your 3-month hiatus from posting at MS and sucking M Greene, not even the vi_noobs could stand your bs and gave you some serious ass whooping... I particularly liked the one calling you a pretentious 20-year-old or the one calling you out for misquoting posts in your own thread. And now you came back crawling to MS, just like I predicted. You are more than welcome here (like any vi_noob) just don't be a smartass about it.
Somebody on VI-Control called Junior a pretentious 20-year-old? Thanks for the info, that was just the word I could not find in the dictionary! :-) I found precocious instead, how does that fin in your opinion? Could you provide me with a link? I couldn't find the mentioned VI-Control thread.

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Re: Star Wars Battlefront II: Battle of Geonosis Official Trailer

Post by DarkestShadow » Sat 8 Dec 2018 20:51

FriFlo wrote:
Sat 8 Dec 2018 16:56
Suck My BRAAAM wrote:
Thu 6 Dec 2018 21:36
Funny that after your 3-month hiatus from posting at MS and sucking M Greene, not even the vi_noobs could stand your bs and gave you some serious ass whooping... I particularly liked the one calling you a pretentious 20-year-old or the one calling you out for misquoting posts in your own thread. And now you came back crawling to MS, just like I predicted. You are more than welcome here (like any vi_noob) just don't be a smartass about it.
Somebody on VI-Control called Junior a pretentious 20-year-old? Thanks for the info, that was just the word I could not find in the dictionary! :-) I found precocious instead, how does that fin in your opinion? Could you provide me with a link? I couldn't find the mentioned VI-Control thread.

You enjoy (now randomly) debating people rather than points, aren't you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I should do it like "Headshot - The Narrow Minded" and should change my public profile to "DarkestShallow - The Pretentious 20 Year old".
*A lazy trademark envisioned by FriFlo, registered in DE.

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