PART 07 - "I Will Dig Up The Demo" - Must See ! (6 PARTS)

[Headshot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUXoHGKGFOs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqBjtnfFj8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1vCmLDOFLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHGqwstMWXc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3ekhkUjMwA

https://youtu.be/oukTtpHcnkA

Mirror Link :

1_Where is That Demo ?

► Show Spoiler

2_Can a Man Run before Being Able To Stand On His Two Legs

► Show Spoiler

3_"I Certainly Knew Nothing About Big-Bands"

► Show Spoiler

4_The Parody

► Show Spoiler

5_Don't Break The Rules Before Mastering Them

► Show Spoiler

6_"You Just Have To Be Able To Hear It In Your Head"

► Show Spoiler

[Kyle Judkins]

art is subjective
my shitty keyboard/piano skills is objective truth lol

[DarkestShadow]

- OK, that demo with the weird doubling - there is a reason those things are called demos - they are raw... when sitting on it and really trying to make it smooth and perfect Hans might have cleaned it up.
(Yes, I am procrastinating here...)

- Haha, how limited do you think someone is without musical knowledge? Really super duper mega giga limited? Or just limited to the extent that they might not be able virtuous and complex scores like Final Game or John Powell stuff?
I think I have to put an orchestral track of mine in the review section here at some point... haha... Gonna try and write something that sounds like I have musical knowledge, lol. More James Newton Howard style though, not so busy... (JW Mine Car Chase) really can't do that haha - even though I would love to.

- I have a good alternative for he/she: (s)he

- Ugh... that violas note at 6:28... But that's a darn old track I figure...

- There can be no good independent (without orchestrators?) film music composer without se.... se... I WILL PROVE YOU WRONG!
Thanks for the motivation, argggh! :P :P

- IMO that Dunkirk track is compositionally not very interesting (and doesn't intend to be - even though I wish a bit more harmonization at the end) but creates an enormous amount of dark, expansive tension and drama with the few notes it has are arranged and the elements that perform it sound... Perfectly setting the vibe of the movie.

[Strickland]

- OK, that demo with the weird doubling - there is a reason those things are called demos - they are raw... when sitting on it and really trying to make it smooth and perfect Hans might have cleaned it up.
(Yes, I am procrastinating here...)

The demo doesn't come from the darknet, the demo in the video IS on the soundtrack and HZ said that his demos were transcribed verbatim which is false cause you can hear the same theme corrected by an orchestrator at another moment.

[DarkestShadow]

- OK, that demo with the weird doubling - there is a reason those things are called demos - they are raw... when sitting on it and really trying to make it smooth and perfect Hans might have cleaned it up.
(Yes, I am procrastinating here...)

The demo doesn't come from the darknet, the demo in the video IS on the soundtrack and HZ said that his demos were transcribed verbatim which is false cause you can hear the same theme corrected by an orchestrator at another moment.

Yea, directly related to the Final Game case - indeed, yea. Also interesting that they are on the soundtrack... could however still imagine that they just are raw and Hans would've improved them if it would've been said that it has to be the final version...
I'm not really disagreeing with the Final Game issue anymore since evidence seems to be good enough a this point...

OK, my project loaded up haha - last note (The Parody)
yea, those demos really aren't very good and there is a big difference between them and the final tracks. meh :I

[Raph]

The fourth video of this series (The Parody) is very enlightening, it gives serious hints about how crappy the mock-up sounded like. The rest is already well-known by now. Two episodes and the season 1 of the drama is over?

[Headshot]

art is subjective
my shitty keyboard/piano skills is objective truth lol

There will always be people to say that everything is a matter of feeling !

- OK, that demo with the weird doubling - there is a reason those things are called demos - they are raw... when sitting on it and really trying to make it smooth and perfect Hans might have cleaned it up.

I don't think so. That's a finished demo (because included in the official soundtrack).

Moreover, as explained, we have here asure sign of a low writing level (and lack of ear).

We are talking about a LEGEND, right ? Beethoven reincarnated ? the GREATEAST film composer of ALL FUCKING TIME !

What a joke : there is no way one can find that kind of childish writing in John Williams's first draft (or any other serious composers)

NO WAY

Because that was not a mistake but a weakness.

- Haha, how limited do you think someone is without musical knowledge? Really super duper mega giga limited? Or just limited to the extent that they might not be able virtuous and complex scores like Final Game or John Powell stuff?

Limited proportionally to your knowledge and experience.

You can acquire a knowledge without being aware of it.

For example, by transcribing a lot of music by ears only, you will acquire experience, you will discover and understand many things. THIS constitutes also a musical knowledge even if you have never opened a book.

There can be no good independent (without orchestrators?) film music composer without se.... se... I WILL PROVE YOU WRONG!
Thanks for the motivation, argggh! :P :P

You will work hard to prove me wrong, and then you will just prove me right !
Not to mention all the things you've certainly already learned.

Two episodes and the season 1 of the drama is over?

It's almost over.

[Kyle Judkins]

yeah, I'm pretty sure people still read the thing about piano skills and musical knowledge wrong.

For the sake of clarity, I'll try to rephrase it - so that if it doesn't "click" one way it'll click another.

Without musical knowledge your music limited to your piano skills.

You'll write music like you play keyboard because you're thinking with your hands, and not thinking like the instrument you're trying to replicate. you'll write patterns in patterns that are comfortable with a piano and not the instrument. Example: you'll hold super long notes at forte that can't physically ever do, or fast arpeggios on a trombone, not taking into consideration that they don't use valves, they use slides. Or fast pizzicato, ect.

Also the random little "no no's" of orchestration, like samy's example of doubling a melody 2 octaves below just sounds like dog turd - aiming to get a bigger sound, that you wouldn't need to do if It was orchestrated properly in the first place - respecting the timbre/contrasts/ranges of the instrumentation. This is why 2SFH sounds big and epic - while no amount of 12 horn patches will make a novice sound epic.

[Headshot]

You'll write music like you play keyboard because you're thinking with your hands, and not thinking like the instrument you're trying to replicate. you'll write patterns in patterns that are comfortable with a piano and not the instrument.

Yes it is also a very important point.
But I mostly focused on the fact that someone with a poor musical knowledge and keyboard playing skills will inevitably be confronted to harmonic and melodic limitations.

[Suck My BRAAAM]

I paused the 3rd video to write this: his Race To The House cue sounds like some crappy arranger keyboard from the 90s or an ancient version of Band-In-A-Box.

And right next you showed a video of a crappy arranger keyboard from the 90s lol You are not the only one to see through Mr. Zimmer's bullshit, Samy.

It looks really bad for him to lie like that. Especially when you have one of the orchestrators who worked at the film confirming that the Z man is musically impaired, at least when it comes to writing for symphonic big band orchestras. Not a problem with that, at least admit it. Oh yes, he did! But he also said he wrote and orchestrated every single note we hear in that score. The next Beethoven, what a gift to us all!

More like the walking contradiction.

Zimmer isn't a kid anymore, so why go on a public forum and lie like that? Steal other people's credits? He can't possibly be that insecure and desperate for random internet people approval. And to let his minions cowardly attack and discredit you just because you had the balls to question his highness... a true bully.

[Suck My BRAAAM]

Damn that Days of Thunder cue is hard to listen. And it has nothing to do with the time period.

You know what Horner was doing around 1990? Glory and The Rocketeer
You know what Silvestri was doing around 1990? Back to the Future II and III
You know what Goldsmith was doing around 1990? Total Recall and Gremlins 2
You know what Williams was doing around 1990? Home Alone, Hook and JFK

Sure Zimmer is the underdog and everybody likes to cheer for the underdog... it makes possible for kids like Lionel to think "hey if that guy can make it big, so can I" but you gotta take in consideration the huge team of real talent backing said underdog up. And for him to say he does all the magic alone? Fuck all of that, no paycheck is worth supporting this sham.

[Headshot]

Zimmer isn't a kid anymore, so why go on a public forum and lie like that? Steal other people's credits? He can't possibly be that insecure and desperate for random internet people approval.

When a man has everything, money, fame and success, he only looks at what he lacks and he is never satisfied.

So as you said, it's all about ego boost (like his masterclass : ego boost).

And to let his minions cowardly attack and discredit you just because you had the balls to question his highness... a true bully.

That's indeed a wrong behavior.

Damn that Days of Thunder cue is hard to listen. And it has nothing to do with the time period.

Yes the writing level is as poor as the cheap synth sound.

Sure Zimmer is the underdog and everybody likes to cheer for the underdog... it makes possible for kids like Lionel to think "hey if that guy can make it big, so can I" but you gotta take in consideration the huge team of real talent backing said underdog up. And for him to say he does all the magic alone? Fuck all of that, no paycheck is worth supporting this sham.

Indeed, that's the worst part of it, the fact that it leads young composers not to study music, because one just needs to break the rules...
That's really misleading, in all ways.

[DarkestShadow]

What a joke : there is no way one can find that kind of childish writing in John Williams's first draft (or any other serious composers)

NO WAY

Who knows?? haha

Limited proportionally to your knowledge and experience.

You can acquire a knowledge without being aware of it.

For example, by transcribing a lot of music by ears only, you will acquire experience, you will discover and understand many things. THIS constitutes also a musical knowledge even if you have never opened a book.

I definitely plan to do that - music education solely focused on the actual music, not gminorfifth7theightparralelfifthssalad

[Headshot]

What a joke : there is no way one can find that kind of childish writing in John Williams's first draft (or any other serious composers)

NO WAY

Who knows?? haha

As explained here : http://www.modernity-sucks.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=177
a composer with enough experience and ear can't do such awkwardness even by improvising.

I definitely plan to do that - music education solely focused on the actual music

As long as you stop believing in Santa Claus or magical powers, I'm glad.

[phil_l]

I paused the 3rd video to write this: his Race To The House cue sounds like some crappy arranger keyboard from the 90s or an ancient version of Band-In-A-Box.

LOL, yeah you guys could have done better in the 90s... with 512 kb ram memory computer , 2 megahertz CPU , Cubase Atari and no orchestra samples except cheap synth keyboards ?

It's a 90s mockup... of course it sounds like crap. The trumpet doubling 2 octave below.. actually the only trumpet in this mockup is the one playing melody, what you hear below is bones and horns sounding pretty bad because of the samples. Funny educated composers like you dont hear that.