Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

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Kyle Judkins
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by Kyle Judkins » Wed 26 Dec 2018 01:23

Sam, you're hurting my sides man...

poor DS - we love you buddy, all I can say is LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!!!

not to sound like a snob - but damn, did a lot of driving today and listened to Verdi's requiem again, and everything else seems vanilla.

it gets pretty wild, but ye olde opera guy can damn sure make death seem dramatic and emotional.

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The Impartial
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by Headshot » Wed 26 Dec 2018 02:54

DarkestShadow wrote:
Wed 26 Dec 2018 00:49
Mr Doyle's Haute Cuisine hangs a little heavy on my right ear and the mid to low parts are bit static IMO... not sure why. Guess I should keep listening with laptop speakers as I did the first time haha...

But certainly still well done (heard much better string writing).
it was not a strings writing contest.

I took this example to show that a very common chord progression can be interesting musically depending on the writing level.

The point was to show how the knowledge can improve a raw material...so...why are you talking about the mix ?

DarkestShadow wrote:
Wed 26 Dec 2018 00:49
Hach TBH I have no idea what that refers to ATM.
I don't understand what you are talking about.
DarkestShadow wrote:
Wed 26 Dec 2018 00:49
Hans Zimmer? I'm not in defense of all music he has written - the music you've referenced on the older and the recent example I won't defend...
I took Patrick Doyle's theme and I arranged it to make it sound like Zimmer crap...this famous modern style.

The purpose was to show that a limited musical language leads nowhere and makes Doyle's theme generic.
DarkestShadow wrote:
Wed 26 Dec 2018 00:49
Neither does subtlety. Is Patrick Doyle's piece subtle? I don't think so at all. It's screaming at me "THIS IS EMOTIONAL!! SOARING HIGH VIOLINS, BUSY AFFIRMATIVE CELLI!!!"
Busy ? The lines intersect with great fluidity, the arrangement is great.

And lyricism is not incompatible with subtility.

In comparison with the modern style, that of Doyle's track is VERY subtle.
DarkestShadow wrote:
Wed 26 Dec 2018 00:49
And cheese does not at all depend on style.
I didn't say that.
I said that there is a connection between cheese and retarded writing/common chord progressions (like in many Pop Songs for instance)

I agree that an elaborate writing can also lead to a cheesy result.

DarkestShadow wrote:
Wed 26 Dec 2018 00:49
On the "high-class feelings" pass me to an extent that I can't even comment on it... won't ever put feelings in a hierarchy
Let's say that I give you the power to make someone you love (or yourself) feel what you want.

Without taking into consideration any moral notion, what are you going to choose between :
- sadness and joy
- fear and enthusiasm
- stress and serenity
- anger and compassion

?

Feelings/emotions, like everything on earth are subject to a scale of value/quality and it's not only because high emotions are pleasant but also and mainly because they are healthy. Low feelings/emotions (stress, anger etc.) lead to illness.

That doesn't mean that the negative emotions don't have meaning and utility, but they are objectively unhealthy. Therefore, they are inferior to healthy positive emotions.

Once we have accepted that there is a scale of value between the positive and the negative feelings, we are ready to accept that there is also a scale of value between the positive emotions.

It's good to know that classical music is not only the richest and the most elaborate but it's also recognized for its health benefits.

Maybe because it stimulates superior emotions than...let's say...Pop Music for instance ?

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The Impartial
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by Headshot » Wed 26 Dec 2018 03:49

Kyle Judkins wrote:
Wed 26 Dec 2018 01:23
not to sound like a snob - but damn, did a lot of driving today and listened to Verdi's requiem again, and everything else seems vanilla.
Nothinig snob with calling a spade a spade ! Classical music is one of the greatest achievements of mankind and even a master like Williams is very humble in front of the legacy :

DO YOU LISTEN TO MUSIC WHEN YOURE NOT WORKING?

Not really. If for example, I listen to Haydn or Brahms, I become very discouraged because I'll never be able to write something as good as these great masters. When I'm listening to music, thats all I'm doing. I don't participate in conversations or just have it on in the back round. Like Rachmanivov said " Music is enough for a life time, but a life time is not enough for music". It's not possible to live long enough to listen to everything, study everything and appreciate everything. I'm eighty on and i've barely touched the surface!

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DarkestShadow
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by DarkestShadow » Wed 26 Dec 2018 04:28

Sleep is overrated yea... not sure about Hans Zimmer, but sleep for sure.

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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by Headshot » Wed 26 Dec 2018 04:59

haha

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DarkestShadow
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by DarkestShadow » Wed 26 Dec 2018 05:00

Of course there are negative and objectively unhealthy emotions. But since we were talking about music (I also referenced Thomas Bergersen's piece "Sun" for a different style with different emotions than the classical which will hardly cause anger or fear) I wasn't really taking those into consideration.
If a piece evokes low and negative emotions I won't even listen and not defend it. And differentiation/value between positive emotions is of course subjective, unless there are external mental or physical health factors. One would have to compare the effect of classical music on classical music fans and the effect of the "modern style" on those fans...

It was more - emotional classical piece VS emotional modern style (Hans Zimmer, Thomas Bergersen etc) piece. I initially just said that those have different emotional realms.
For instance both "Creation of Earth" (Thomas) and a crazy emotional part towards the end of JW's "ET" soundtrack have moved me to treas in their very own and yet strangely similar ways.
Unexplainable stuff so I'll just leave it there.

But on a different note - music can also make me feel "negative" emotions as intended by the artist. But the way music evokes them makes it enjoyable in some sense.
Like horror... there is rather creepy and unsettling music I very much appreciate. Essentially low-class emotions elevated to high-class emotions. All arts can achieve that.

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Kyle Judkins
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by Kyle Judkins » Wed 26 Dec 2018 12:57

o.O how much classical music have you heard?

My long time obsession was requiems - because they invoke every emotion they can think of that relates to death... And Verdi(who I just mentioned) was an opera writer - who was extremely used to writing sad, or angry pieces - because he wrote for theatre.

when he busts out that rex tremendae you best be scared boi

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DarkestShadow
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by DarkestShadow » Wed 26 Dec 2018 15:38

Kyle Judkins wrote:
Wed 26 Dec 2018 12:57
o.O how much classical music have you heard?

My long time obsession was requiems - because they invoke every emotion they can think of that relates to death... And Verdi(who I just mentioned) was an opera writer - who was extremely used to writing sad, or angry pieces - because he wrote for theatre.

when he busts out that rex tremendae you best be scared boi
Not much more than 40 pieces, because I only appreciated 6 or so of them and the others put me off.
Will certainly listen to more (including Verdi). I already love what I heard of Debussy and Ravel.

But what you describe is what I wrote in the last post... negative emotions can still be "enjoyable" in the widest sense when they are being expressed and thus transformed by art.
Something I find very intriguing.

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Kyle Judkins
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by Kyle Judkins » Thu 27 Dec 2018 03:25

Part of me feels like some of the older more educated crowd should work on a playlist or something exposing some of this art to the newer generations that half of the time don't ever have so much as a single music class in their life.

I know that when I quit art at 16 and ended up becoming a musician, I truly understood that expression "a life time is not enough for music". I started out in a theory class(my dad had a guitar he never played so I picked it up) and ended up being asked to join chorus because I picked up sight-reading so well, and at first I figured it cant hurt to practice reading music - and when I stepped in the first morning and we all warmed up - I was floored. Just never really occurred to me how a bunch of mouths in a room could create a wall of sound.

in those 2 years I was lucky enough to be exposed to all sorts of diverse and powerful music, and this experience was so profound that it completely changed how I listened to music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdJwJba2ZHg


something tight, small, energetic, and haunting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUVxjyW7z0c

something light, flowing - beauty and agony. If you make it to the first chorus of this without shedding a tear(despite 20 something women telling you not to shed a tear) then you're soulless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ostPsjGrYBg

rhythmic, juicy - so much you can learn about chords - part writing, counterpoint. Especially in the end it gets pretty fucking epic. And that's something that just a group of highschoolers can produce with nothing but a stage, and a respiratory system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuUsVEEC-HI

this piece flows like a river(this is a pun, based on the text) it was written before we even used measures(it's just a bunch of note lengths essentially stuck together)

and that's just how much emotion you can squeeze out of 1 single instrument(2 if you split by gender, 4 if you split by satb, more if you start saying mezzo soprano, contralto, ect) People's faces can make music that is rhythmically groovy, weep worthy sweeping chords and melodies, bombastic epic blasting - something that HZ with an entire French horn army couldn't reproduce XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo22KhenMS4


the above is a handful of the most iconic segment from Verdi's requiem - and it hits like a damn truck. Again, not to bash modern music - but there is an entire world that for some reason has earned a bazaar stigma, and has never been properly introduced to this generation.

ive got a briefcase of old music that my grandfather(whom ive never met) had. Shit from the 1920s, all the way back to early 1900s. There's literally "Gay hits from the 90's" in that briefcase, and it's 'hits' from the 1890's. Before recording was popular - people just picked up the music and played it at home with friends or whatever. That's how fluent the average person was with music. Imagine if instead of albums - people were just downloading sheet music, and that's how they knew what it even sounded like.

This exposure is not only keys for success, but you also have to keep in mind... nearly whomever you look up to - was either directly influenced by, or 2nd hand influenced by these pieces of music.

even this particular composer you love so much:

"Q:
Who and what are your other largest musical influences?
A:
There are too many greats to list. I am inspired by everything from Mozart to Katy Perry. Genre really doesn’t matter to me. Gustav Mahler will always have a special place in my heart, though, because when I was about ten years old I discovered his fifth symphony and something just clicked. That’s when I decided I wanted to be a composer for real."

The dude attributes listening to Mahler's 5th symphony to wanting to be a composer. He didn't grow up listening to HZ. This is why in that other thread I had made the statement that I'm convinced your taste will change over time. It largely becomes the issue of "gateway drug" - where you might have been pulled into music when you first heard xyz, but nearly all of it leads back to the mastery of the craft prior to modern technology.


TB is trying to capture the sheer impact of music that was made without volume knobs. They used a vast knowledge of comfort zones in each instrument - impeccable chord voicing, and orchestration to blow the shit out of people's ear drums. Nowadays we need 60 cello patches and 12 horn patches to play chords to sound "epic".

I hope you stumble onto some good music, and my personal "first love" when introduced to all this - was when I first heard mozarts requiem, and next thing you know I ordered scores for about 5 requiems - and had quite the obsession. The power, majesty, terror, sorrow, the weightlessness - every aspect of the natural cycle is somehow masterfully portrayed in so many ways. From Mozart's to Brahms... From Verdi to Faure... You don't need to speak the language to know what it's about... the notes and orchestration are a precise tool of empathy on staff paper. If someone asked you to describe "sadness" using words - you'd be stuck only using examples of things that could make you sad. If someone asked you to describe sadness with 2 measures and a solo instrument that doesn't even have a tongue - you could explain it perfectly.

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Farkle
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by Farkle » Fri 28 Dec 2018 00:36

Kyle, you were asking for a playlist of classical music to expose to the masses... ;)

Here you go..

https://open.spotify.com/user/farkleber ... ei6GDSzDfw

It's a playlist built by several Hollywood film and TV composers in the early 2000's. 30 Hours of classical music. Much of the obvious ones (Rite, Daphnis), but a lot of sweet gems. And, at the end of the day, 30 hours of the best classical music, written by the titans (Ravel, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, etc). This'll get you started. :)

Mike

PS. I apologize for being off radar, had a ton of work in Nov and Dec. Farkle Fridays are ramping up again!

Mike (again)

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Kyle Judkins
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Re: Thomas Bergersen - American Dream (40 Minutes Symphony)

Post by Kyle Judkins » Fri 28 Dec 2018 05:42

Thanks mike. I'm a good bit more exposed, but it's nice to know someone has a nice condensed list. Although I might have slightly less than typical taste - and I blame chorus for that.

and I've been slammed myself.
january might be an easy month or a very hard month, depending on how hard academy ends up being

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