Wizard Enclave

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Farkle
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Wizard Enclave

Post by Farkle » Mon 23 Apr 2018 19:36

Time to get feedback and get better!

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen,

I've been working for years on improving both my composing, and my production. I'm constantly afraid of putting my pieces out there, because I all I can think of are the composing and mockup monsters that are already out there, making great music.

But, I also realize that the only way to get better is to put things out there, hear the flaws, improve on them.

My goals are simple:

1. Continue to develop my orchestration and composition skills, developing nuance and (dare I say) some element of virtuosity in orchestral writing.
2. Dramatically improving the quality of my mockups and production.

I would appreciate any feedback on this, my first submitted short piece. This was the last piece I wrote before I scrapped this template. This template was designed to be as dry as possible, to be playable. Libraries were LASS, VSL Harp, VSL Percussion, Cinebrass, and VSL Special Edition Winds.

Thank you all for taking the time to listen to this piece and provide feedback. Be direct, I can take it! :)



All the best,

Mike

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The Impartial
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Headshot » Mon 23 Apr 2018 19:58

This is pure shit.
(just kidding)

I'll give you my feedback later.

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Farkle
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Farkle » Mon 23 Apr 2018 20:10

hahaha!!! well played!

awesome, thank you for taking the time to provide feedback. roger on the sound loud link, I'll use that in the future.

Rock on!!

mike

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Best Retards
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Best Retards » Tue 24 Apr 2018 00:14

Hey Farkle,
I actually liked it, the only thing I found "strange" was that chord progression from '25-'27 but besides that, it's cool, keep up the good work

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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Headshot » Tue 24 Apr 2018 01:15

https://youtu.be/LkPpNg3WuGo


Try to put the woodwind section a bit further back (not only the clarinet).

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Farkle
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Farkle » Tue 24 Apr 2018 01:43

Best Retards wrote: Tue 24 Apr 2018 00:14 Hey Farkle,
I actually liked it, the only thing I found "strange" was that chord progression from '25-'27 but besides that, it's cool, keep up the good work

Thank you for the kind words and the support. Yes, I do know that spot you are talking about. It was a voice leading experiment, that (I think) didn't turn out well. But, I tried something, and got some good feedback, which is, probably don't do that progression again! :)

I definitely have a ways to go with production, more on that later, but glad that the piece generally sat well. Again, thank you for taking the time to listen and give feedback!

Farkle

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Farkle
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Farkle » Tue 24 Apr 2018 01:54

Headshot wrote: Tue 24 Apr 2018 01:15 https://youtu.be/LkPpNg3WuGo


Try to put the woodwind section a bit further back (not only the clarinet).
Hi, Headshot! Thank you for the feedback, and taking the time to listen and analyze. (and for the quality background on the music). :)

To address your points:

1. Synthy string library. I was using LASS 2.5 full, and I soon discarded it from my template. I found it to be lifeless, and lacking in body and soul. Agreed on your point, 100%. :)

2. Try to put the clarinet back. Will do. It definitely felt too close. I've learned a lot this year about EQ'ing to help create a sense of distance, I'll try that. Thank you!

3. Strange Harmonic movement at :25. I was experimenting with an Equal Interval System progression/voice-leading structure, and I think it didn't work out too well. I'll try a different progression on it. Oboe is definitely too loud, also.

4. Muddy Pizz. Agreed. I think I need to do a better job equalizing the low strings, as well as the reverb. Also, still using LASS, which just doesn't do it for me, anymore. Can't believe I'm having such trouble with that library. Ugh.

5. Call and response across the register. I love that idea, an elegant solution, for a more civilized cue. :) I'll give that a shot.

Again, thank you for taking the time and providing the feedback, Headshot. I appreciate it!

Mike

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Kyle Judkins
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Kyle Judkins » Tue 24 Apr 2018 04:19

honestly, I'd like the pizz on beats 2 & 3 lightly with the bass or celli... something to keep the rhythm more or less locked, even if very faintly - for the listener to grab on to...

that's what my regular guy ears feel is missing... without any rhythmic interest it seems less ebb + flow and more aimless wandering. Something I've found happens easily without a click because we often nod along, but the listener doesn't know what you were thinking - so without some spine implied.

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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Headshot » Tue 24 Apr 2018 09:32

Farkle wrote: Tue 24 Apr 2018 01:54
Thank you for the feedback

To address your points:

1. Synthy string library. I was using LASS 2.5 full, and I soon discarded it from my template. I found it to be lifeless, and lacking in body and soul. Agreed on your point, 100%. :)

You're welcome.

I think you could get a much better result with LASS.

Which patches did you use ?

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Farkle
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Farkle » Tue 24 Apr 2018 13:20

Kyle Judkins wrote: Tue 24 Apr 2018 04:19 honestly, I'd like the pizz on beats 2 & 3 lightly with the bass or celli... something to keep the rhythm more or less locked, even if very faintly - for the listener to grab on to...

that's what my regular guy ears feel is missing... without any rhythmic interest it seems less ebb + flow and more aimless wandering. Something I've found happens easily without a click because we often nod along, but the listener doesn't know what you were thinking - so without some spine implied.
Hi, Kyle!

Thank you for your feedback! That's something I need to work on. The temp track I received was from Heroes of Might and Magic, so I tried to emulate it's dreami'ness. Need to work on having the dreami'ness, while still having compositional focus.

One of my reference cues attached below:

https://youtu.be/TSoPiffmSYU?t=12m21s

Things to think about! :)

Mike

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Farkle
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Farkle » Tue 24 Apr 2018 13:23

Headshot wrote: Tue 24 Apr 2018 09:32
Farkle wrote: Tue 24 Apr 2018 01:54
Thank you for the feedback

To address your points:

1. Synthy string library. I was using LASS 2.5 full, and I soon discarded it from my template. I found it to be lifeless, and lacking in body and soul. Agreed on your point, 100%. :)

You're welcome.

I think you could get a much better result with LASS.

Which patches did you use ?
I think that people definitely have achieved better results with LASS than I! :)

Patches were the legato A,B,C patches, layered and played in with ARC. I didn't play A,B,C in each line. I stacked them, inside of ARC. However, I did play each line in separately.

I'm actually moving away from LASS, and diving into reprogramming my own strings in Kontakt. Starting with libraries that have excellent recordings, in a great space, with good captures of passionate performances. I will definitely post up here as I build them, I'm excited, because many of these libs are "hidden gems" from years past, that have a great character to them. But, I definitely want to learn from excellent mockup artists, how to bring out the emotion and polish of libraries, including LASS.

Who knows? Your advice may very well put LASS back into my template! :)

Mike

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Kyle Judkins
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Kyle Judkins » Tue 24 Apr 2018 15:33

Mike, I think I left the comment on Discord about making sure you map vibrato

Each note starting at zero vib and easing it in throughout the duration of the note is absolutely essential in making sure B. the sound doesn't sound sterile and B. that it's feasible and realistic about how vibrato can actually be played.

I think not using vibrato properly as well as unrealistic dynamics + duration is what breaks immersion and makes good libraries sound synthy to me.

playing forte for 4 measures without a rebow only works if you have an 8 foot bow and a pretty damn strong pair of mitts

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Farkle
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Re: Wizard Enclave

Post by Farkle » Tue 24 Apr 2018 20:22

Kyle Judkins wrote: Tue 24 Apr 2018 15:33 Mike, I think I left the comment on Discord about making sure you map vibrato

Each note starting at zero vib and easing it in throughout the duration of the note is absolutely essential in making sure B. the sound doesn't sound sterile and B. that it's feasible and realistic about how vibrato can actually be played.

I think not using vibrato properly as well as unrealistic dynamics + duration is what breaks immersion and makes good libraries sound synthy to me.

playing forte for 4 measures without a rebow only works if you have an 8 foot bow and a pretty damn strong pair of mitts
Understood, Kyle, and thank you.

Mike

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